You Asked For It, Jordan

We are posting a comment we received from noreply Jordan and our responses because we think it might be instructive. Jordan has included excerpts from our post in quotation marks. Our responses to Jordan are in bold italics.

Jordan has left a new comment on your post "The Sexualizing of Savannah":

"The gay lifestyle, besides being naturally sterile, oversexed, and basely pornographic[…]"

I suspect you have fixated on selective, hypersexualised, sensationalised media portrayals of gay people  . . .

Dear Jordan, 

We don't know of any "hypersexualized, sensationised media portrayals of gay people" today. Do you mean as seen on maybe movies like Deliverance from 1972 where the homosexual characters were murderous backwoods homosexual rapists? That was 45 years ago and times have changed.

The great majority of the media today, let's say 99.9 % of it, which most everyone including you consumes and is influenced by, portrays gays as the smartest, most attractive, most lovable, most talented, most courageous people you know, who only want to love who they want to love, whose sexual proclivities are harmless. You seem to be saying our sources are not accurate, but how accurate is the mainstream media? The truth about gay sexual behaviors is overlooked, whitewashed, and silenced. Only by seeking out  selective (your word) information from nonmainstream sources can anyone hear anything true about the homosexual lifestyle today. We suppose anyone could see it on the debauched streets of San Francisco, or in hospitals where people are suffering and dying of AIDS, which are all really happening and not hypersexualized, sensationalized media portrayals. But most people see and hear only what they want to see and hear.

Listen to this man's sad story. People didn't warn him and now he is beyond miserable. Is this real person  fixated on some exaggerated, sensationalized portrayal of the gay scene? No, it's all around him and he's actually living it, and it's a destructive hypersexualized reality, plus a lot of other bad stuff that goes with it. Do you have any compassion for him?

. . . and don't have many close gay friends. Otherwise, you surely would know that most gay people's lives that are just as mundane and boring as most straight people's.

We get it. You're saying that gays go about their day-to-day lives much the same as straights. Yes, everybody's life is made up of mostly ordinary stuff; people brushing their teeth and putting gas in their cars. But this does not mean people don't think and do plenty of other things that need correcting or are dangerous or destructive or illegal. People can appear normal in public and be sociopaths in private. Your vaporous point belittles a serious problem and is a diversion from the issue: Is homosexuality right or wrong, wholesome and harmless or base and destructive?

Incidentally, we're sorry you think most people's lives are mundane and boring. Ours aren't! God has given His children so much goodness and beauty and truth to learn about and enjoy, and in these modern times of ease and convenience we have more time than ever to do it. People who allow themselves to get bored in this amazing world today set themselves up to get into, well, stuff like sex, as in pornography and all things LGBTQ.  Whatever else it is, gayness is also another method of rebellion against the establishment for bored, ungrateful, irresponsible people of all ages.  

If I were to go by similar portrayals of heterosexuals, I would probably conclude you are all hypocritical, licentious adulterers! That wouldn't be at all fair or accurate, so of course, I don't. I'd appreciate it if you could also be fair to me.

Yes, well, there are plenty of heterosexual, hypocritical, licentious adulterers around. But there's a huge difference. Naughty heterosexuals are not parading themselves in the streets, demanding special treatment and protection from government, institutionally teaching their proclivities to school children, insinuating their sins into churches, and intimidating and suing and punishing anyone who doesn't celebrate their sexual behaviors. Gays do all of the above. Defending and promoting their sexual lifestyle is something gays regularly do. It's everywhere. Can you see that you have done this same sort of thing in your comment?

What's fair and right is to point out what is actually happening. Gays are the ones actively and publicly promoting and defending their sexual proclivities, pushing all things LGBTQ on everybody else--kids, schools, churches, government, you name it. As a homosexualist, you are doing this yourself. Heterosexuals, bad as some are, are not doing this. Where are the Straight Pride parades? Apparently that's much too boring for the unlimited sex revelries of the day.

"…fraught with greatly increased physical, emotional, and spiritual dangers."

Imagine how it would feel if someone called you a pervert because they didn't approve of your husband. Imagine if they said your lifestyle was "basely pornographic". Really think about how that would feel, to read someone saying that about you. Wouldn't you be horrified? It's not the sort of thing a polite, civil person says. It's breathtakingly rude, and I'd expect you to be as offended as I am.

Here we need a little talk about the birds and the bees. There is one right and many wrongs about sex. It's biological. It's medical. It's Biblical. It's ingrained in medicine, human experience, art, history, theology, and literature. Proper sexual intercourse occurs  between a male and female who are unselfish and kind and committed to each other in other ways besides sex. If a healthy male is necessarily patient, the healthy female body prepares itself for sexual intercourse that is painless and harmless. (Male homosexuals don't need any patience.) In the one correct use of sex the only possible significant physical change would be pregnancy in the female in which an entirely unique human being would form and be born, because that is what the human sexual instinct's primary purpose is. On the other hand, homosex, which of course includes sodomy, is maladaptive. Sorry, it hurts your body. Certain body parts do not respond well to the act of sodomy. In truth, gays must not really love each other because they are harming each other's bodies. People who love each other don't physically harm each other on purpose. Sex is serious; if misused somebody gets hurt. 

Ask any doctor who treats gays. They have gross chronic health problems and contract life-shortening diseases that those who treat sex properly don't ever have. Sex as described above is never harmful whereas gay sex is always harmful. It isn't natural or normal. That's why we say it's pornographic. The nature of porn is that it is exaggerated/ phony/kinky/selfish/sadistic, etc. If you do not recognize this, you have reached a point where you are past proper feeling. You can always repent and turn to the Lord. The Spirit can teach you the truth of all things.

It is too bad that a couple of grandparents like us here at SoL have to point out these sensitive things. All experts and leaders should be doing it but they aren't. It may not seem polite or civil to those who are squeamish or in denial, but what we say is true and important for people to know. It is actually very civilized to point out something that threatens civilization. Sex used to be private. But the sex movement has made it very public. Now, polite, civil people have to speak up. And yes, that is the right thing to do. Wouldn't you warn a person who was walking on the very edge of a cliff with his eyes closed? You might even risk your own safety to save them. That sounds more than polite and civil. True, what we say offends you because it doesn't fit in with your choices. But truth often does that. A friend of ours says, "Truth is hate to people who hate truth." We love people enough to risk them being offended and not liking us. 

One of the greatest dangers we face is people who say offensive and prejudicial things about us and fight to deny us protection or a place in society. Their views are refracted in dozens of ways, from subtle scorn to painful legal challenges and outright violence.

Okay, these are a bunch of gay activist talking points that don't hold water. It's propaganda. Looks like you are getting some very sensationalized info in very select places! 


Really? Offensive and prejudicial things people say about you is one of the greatest dangers you face? Ever heard of sticks and stones? Show us where gays don't have protection or a place in society today. They are getting everything they want. Everybody fawns all over them. Huge huge huge amounts of money and pressure are behind the gay movement. It has upended an entire generation's way of life. It has destroyed the true meaning of the words mother, father, husband, wife, marriage, family, parents. Show us the painful legal challenges and the violence gays face. There aren't any. The ones cited were proven to be made up. There are even laws now more seriously punishing anyone who commits any crime if it's against a gay person. Gay people are more protected than anybody else on the planet right now.

Let's talk about where the scorn is coming from these days. How about the lesbians who singled out certain Christian bakers to order their wedding cake from, and when they politely declined the lesbians sued them and they lost their business? Who got hurt there? The bakers lost their livelihood and were fined, and the lesbians said they lost some, well, sleep? Plus they got thousands of dollars from the Christian bakers. All this, because a couple of lesbians targeted some Christians and pretended to be harmed by their beliefs! There are plenty of other places to get wedding cakes. That is just plain toxic. There are many such incidents where ordinary people are being targeted and punished by intolerant gays and their homosexualist allies.  

Have you considered how many LGBT people hear and are hurt by that kind of thoughtless and abusive language? How many are made homeless by their parents? How many are pushed into trying to change… but can't? How many are verbally or physically attacked by people who would absolutely agree with much of what you're saying?

Have YOU considered how many ordinary people hear and are hurt by the things you are saying? How many school children are being taught homosexuality? How many decent people are being propagandized and intimidated and pushed into changing their deeply-held beliefs? How many are verbally or physically attacked by people like you? We ourselves have received death wishes and terroristic threats. Clearly,the shoe is now on the other foot.

Again, show us where any of what you say is really happening. Hardly anybody is saying anything against gayness these days. They are too afraid! So much for freedom. All we see and hear about parents these days is that they are brought around to homosexualism by their gay kids, or at least act like it. And by the way, no one is forcing you to read our little blog. It just sits here for people to look at if they want to. Even so, they have to seek it out. Why are you seeking it out? Could it be that you are not really hurt or offended, but are an activist trying to intimidate us into abandoning our beliefs and shutting up?

Even if gays do hear something they don't like, why are they such babies about it? People are supposed to be allowed to express their moral and religious beliefs, yes, even if people don't agree with them, and yes, even if they come across as "bigots" to other people. Have you never seen the TV show All in the Family? Archie Bunker didn't express himself well and was often a jerk, yes, but he was allowed to be one and often suffered the consequences. This is called freedom. Trust us, you don't want that taken away. 

Here is a reality check. The history of mankind is against homosex. And a few millennials/sexual revolutionaries in one generation are arrogant enough to think they can change the basic values and wisdom of all mankind!

Assuming your son is currently happy, you are very lucky. Many parents are not. Some push their children away, losing their love and company. Others are extremely unlucky—for example, poor Leelah Alcorn's. I'm honestly glad things worked out well for you and your son, and would be very sad for you both if they had not.

Thank you. But you do know you are admitting that people can change if they want to bad enough. Luck has nothing to do with it. Changing your mind and real repentance is hard, humbling work. It is too bad the boy you mention took his own life. Luck had nothing to do with that either. It was a choice or mental illness or both. And there must have been something much worse wrong in his head than playing dress-up. If, like you said, gays' lives are mundane and boring, why was his mere self-sexual identity important enough to die for? Who put the horrific idea of suicide in his head? Oh, that's right, the gay activists did! They play that card incessantly. And it sure gives kids terrible ideas.

The truth is, for acting-out youth full of curiosity and hormones, sex can actually be a huge part of life, playing in their heads constantly. And it's anything but mundane and boring. It's addictive, compulsive, thrilling, and must be accelerated to keep it interesting. We are obviously not hearing the whole story about the boy you mention. That's how gay activists want it. They exploit everything to get gain. Despicable.

I am happy that you are happy with your life. I would be happier if you could be kinder and more thoughtful, and consider that you are talking about real human beings with the capacity for love, respect—and offence. 

You are saying here that we at SoL need to be kinder and more thoughtful of the tender feelings of gays. But you say this without owning the harmful gay ideas and behaviors. If you are involved in it, you have to own it. (Again, you are promoting your bad behaviors, whereas heterosexual adulterers and the like are not.) You can't fool us. We know what this stuff is about. Our kid was hurt by the whole homosex thing. By fine upstanding members of the church with their temple marriage pictures on the wall! For all we know you are one of those who abused our son. We haven't heard you deny that you behave in this way. We haven't heard you say you don't use porn. We haven't heard you say you don't initiate and sodomize people. Even if you don't do these things you are defending them because it's all part and parcel of the gay life and you know it.

Again, if you are truly sincere and don't see all of what you've gotten yourself into, you need to take stock. All we've heard is a bunch of vaporous, victimy talking points crafted to make people think you are put upon and don't do anything wrong. So let's be intellectually honest here. Being gay is more than an identity. It's more than living your regular mundane life. It's more than role playing being "married" to your "husband." It's about very bad sexual lusts and behaviors and rationalizing those destructive, sinful pleasures, and then imagining yourself morally superior to people like us and feeling emboldened enough to lecture us.

And about this giving of offense. Is not offending anyone the highest morality? Is making sure you don't hurt anybody's feelings the ultimate in human striving?  That would be ridiculous and impossible. One, because we're imperfect; everybody offends and get offended. Two, because people take offense when none is meant. And three, because there is opposition in all things. In addition, some people, who are wrong or dangerous, deserve to get their feelings hurt. 

And furthermore, who gets to decide what hurts whose feelings? 

What you really mean is that not offending gays is the highest morality. Apparently, we are hurting your feelings but you don't think you are capable of hurting others'. Just so you know, the unsolicited things you have said in this comment are very critical and potentially hurtful. If we wanted to we could be very offended. You have called our words "thoughtless and abusive." You have called us "breathtakingly rude." All merely because we have a different worldview than you, which is based on God and His objective standards for human behavior held since the beginning of humankind. We try to be truthful and helpful, though some may not like it. We study and work hard on this stuff.  We want the eternal best for everyone. We are motivated by love of God and our fellow man. Our mission is quite costly and we aren't rich. In other words, we are sacrificing a great amount of resources for this cause. You don't think your words might be hurtful to us? 

If not hurting people's feelings is the highest morality, you have committed immoral acts just as you say we have. If not hurting people's feelings were the highest morality, there would be no discipline of children, no rules, no tests, no grading systems, no try-outs, no talents, no valuing of  health or beauty, no Ten Commandments, no differing beliefs, no courts, no punishments, no jails, no justice. But this doesn't happen. There is always some entity that attains authority which makes the rules, benevolent or nonbenevolent.  That's why it's best to stick with God and His rules. Trust us, you are going to want God in charge.

It would help you if you could separate people, which are of immeasurable spiritual worth, from their temporal ideas and behaviors, which are often wrong, worthless, wicked, and even dangerous. This is something we had to learn about when we faced this issue. This is something God does. His love for us is unconditional, which is separate from the fact that He has rules that have consequences. If there were no law, there would be no God, neither would we exist. God so loved us that He sent His Son to die for us so we can be forgiven if we repent. 

Yes, people are involved in homosexuality, and we expose the deception and dangers. If you are honest you can see that this is the kind thing to do. (Even gays admit HIV/AIDS is a gay disease. Young people especially need to know the potential risks as per the CDC.) We don't worry that we are called names and even have our lives threatened. True charity is not self-centered and so does not take offense. You say you are offended by our blog, so where is your charity? We'll tell you where it is. You have been so deceived by gay rhetoric, which has been reinforced by your own homosexual behaviors, that you make yourself a victim of  "unkindness" by anybody you can find, when it's you who are responsible for your own bad choices and behaviors.  

Whatever your motives in writing to us, we hope you will think about where you have gotten your attitudes and honestly examine what you say and do. You are of great worth and we hope the very best for you.