As per mormonandgay Savannah Should Have Her Say!

Since the 12-year-old came out as a lesbian in church as reported in our previous post, The Sexualizing of Savannah, we are reposting "Meet the Gay Mormons" below from 10/25/16 with several paragraphs added illuminating the pro-gay stance of the official LDS Church as per its web page, mormonandgay.lds.org. Funny how most Mormons have probably never seen this web page, or thought about it much. It's a big deal. Maybe it should be required reading. Maybe people need to face what is happening in their own church, make of it what they will.

First a little intro. At mormonandgay.lds.org several Mormon gays were recruited to be filmed telling their pro-gay sexuality stories for all the world to see and sympathize with. So why was young Savannah's mic cut off and she told to sit down? This is a fair question. She was doing exactly what they do on this official web page.

With encouragement like this, what do people expect to happen in church meetings, yes, where youth and children are present? Granted, there are no gay minors shown on mormonandgay. But nowhere are any such lines drawn either. See photo of Savannah at a gay pride parade/festival. People need to know that there are always lots of kids at these sexual exhibitionist events. Sad to say, Savannah herself has been immersed by adults in this adult perverse sexuality to the point where she has no qualms pushing the idea of homosexuality onto other children. Pushing unlimited sexuality on children is the crux of the gay agenda. They can't reproduce so they must recruit. Gays are also known to be highly predatory. Initiating the young is commonplace in this lifestyle. Case in point: Savannah.

By the way, Savannah's prepared speech, pretty much written by her parents,or rather her mother and her "other parent" (what's that all about?), specifically insists she can't make anybody gay by association. Interesting how gays often make this strange assertion, at the same time very publicly glorifying their lifestyle. They turn themselves into a flashy, attention-getting advertisement for homosexuality, and then assure people it won't spread! What? Selling something is what advertising and web sites and propaganda and pornography are all about. The question is, what are you peddling, something worthwhile and true and good, or the opposite? Savannah, in her boy's shirt and tie (we guess this is a passive-aggressive nose-thumbing at proper gender roles), coached by adults, is introducing a destructive idea about human sexuality she says is perfectly fine---from the pulpit. Why wouldn't others, especially vulnerable children like herself, be motivated to entertain and explore that idea? It's like seeing a commercial for a juicy hamburger and becoming interested or curious or hungry, which motivates you to go out and find and buy and try that exact hamburger. People do such things every day.   

Still don't believe the Church is so very pro-gay these days? Yes, it still takes a bit of a stand against gay marriage (in a handbook at the back of leaders' desks), but many members, even very vocal/well-known members, are now for gay marriage, which stance appears to be perfectly fine with the leadership. But there's a whole world of gayness that has nothing to do with the fake marriage spectacle. That was just a stratagem to further the agenda. People need to think about what's going on on mormonandgay. Read on.

Meet the Gay Mormons (Revisited)

Note: Apparently, not all church leaders agree on certain aspects of this issue, nor do members. We at SoL have been given to understand that strong differing opinions are understood and tolerated within the church. SoL's view is not based on current cultural trends and sentimental human relations and  emotional stories but on Scripture, universally true principles, real charity, and timeless objective moral standards that come from God. 

The following is our response to the new page, mormonandgay.lds.org. And we've also been reading some of the responses from the other side. It seems this is yet another effort to make everyone happy which has resulted in nobody being made happy, at least not the ones who take this issue seriously. It's astonishing that the Word of God does not have the first, middle, and last word. The Bible is absolutely clear about homosexual lusts and behaviors being wicked and repentance through Christ being available and necessary to all who care about God and eternal life. We think Mormon homosexualists know that they are at opposition with Scripture, as in the Standard Works, as in the Standard for the regulation and spiritual growth of all immortal souls. It looks like they have to work very hard to justify their moral relativism and denial of the plain and precious gospel, God's plan, which comprises sin and possible repentance and redemption through Christ. It doesn't matter if people are born that way, which they aren't, or not; these lusts and all degrees of behaviors are destructive and sinful. Sex and sexuality are serious; if misused somebody gets hurt.

Here are some of our specific thoughts about this mormonandgay.lds,org.

This page boasts diverse individuals' stories but neglects to show any of the people who have resisted and overcome homosexuality. (We know plenty and have ourselves published two books on this subject, My Darling From the Lions and Captain of My Soul, highly endorsed and prefaced by experts, yet rejected by leading LDS publisher Deseret Book. D.B.'s books on this topic are gay-affirming and have no expert endorsements. Make of that what you will.)

Christ's gospel of sin, repentance, and redemption is not emphasized, rather it argues in favor of the human will and the weakness of homosexual lust.

The Atonement is mischaracterized as something that can make us comfortable with our sinfulness rather than humbling and changing and purifying our desires.

The dark, broken, rebellious, pornographic, addictive, promiscuous, narcissistic, dangerous world of homosexual lust and how people get into it is completely ignored.

Homosexuality is portrayed as a harmless orientation rather than a disorder or sin. (Why would a girl be interrupted in her advocating of lesbianism in testimony meeting if lesbianism is harmless? No one official has said this is inappropriate to say in church. It's on the Church's website!)

Homosexual behaviors, supposedly still prohibited, are not clearly defined. Therefore, any individual or ward leader can choose to put up boundaries, or not, anywhere they please.

Mormon gays are shown as sympathetic characters because they are not officially allowed the full perverse and dangerous physical homosexual contacts they desire, although these are not defined. Again, all of this is up to untrained local leaders to define and discipline or not.)

No concern is shown for the obvious depravity or emotional and mental illnesses of the gays highlighted, or gays in general. How unkind is that?

"Authenticity," as in embracing the natural man as is and sharing one's feelings, is considered the highest value and most helpful attribute. Not reality, not truth, not goodness, not virtue, not humility, not repentance, not forgiveness, not improvement, not learning, not growing, not love of God and His word. Just authenticity. Who is to say Savannah's "testimony" was not "authentic?" So why did they cut her mic? The truth is, authenticity of itself isn't worth much. A serial killer is authentic. Thieves are authentic. So what? What matters is what you believe in; if it's right or wrong, good or bad. It is incredible that certain people's trendy pro-gay stories, which all sound pretty much the same, are held in the highest esteem by many, regardless of holy scripture and regardless of the crimes or causes or illnesses behind these stories. In reality these stories are not authentic at all; that's why we put it in quotation marks. At best they are memorized talking points, whitewashing, denial, incomplete, deceptive, and justification for sin.

Mormonandgay offers zero help for healing from horrific child sexual abuse, as in the sad case of Ricardo. He explains how at a very young age he was seduced and initiated into homosex by predatory older males, which he admits had a huge influence on him (and obviously interfered with normal sexual development). Astonishingly, the story is apparently included to convince us to embrace this person's resulting choice for a homosexual lust identity rather than to show evidence of serious crimes against him as a child and his ruined life. He says that sharing his feelings helped him see that "nothing is broken or needs to be fixed." Oh really?

There appears to be some disconnect on what sexual purity and healthy sexuality actually are as in the case of lesbian Laurie who says, "The gospel has not made me attracted to men. But it has helped me be attracted to one man." What? Aren't we all supposed to keep our sexual attraction focused on one person---our spouse? This statement shows some seriously obsessive wrong-headedness by way of sexually objectifying human beings in general. It seems that gays/lesbians walk into a room and see sex and sexuality, not people.

The greatest available comfort for gays is shown to be, not God's love and truth, repentance through Christ, and spiritual guidance, but human relations by way of venting one's feelings on others. How well does this work? Tanya tells about her son who was so relieved to "come out" but who was still so depressed that he only lasted 5 months on his 2-year mission. Once home he was put in a ward leadership position! This is how we deal with spiritual death and sexual sin and confusion and mental illness? 

Perhaps the most disturbing part of this web page concerns the now popular worldview of professional therapy for gays. In a nutshell, LDS therapists are instructed to confirm the gay person's gayness, regardless of any previous abuse, underlying trauma, or pathology, regardless of the Hippocratic oath, regardless of the therapist's knowledge, experience, and life's work, regardless of his convictions about God or morality and his constitutionally protected right to exercise them, regardless even of a client's fervent wish to repent, heal, and change! Not only is this website saying: Be gay but don't actually live gay, but to the therapists it is saying: Be Christian but don't actually live Christian. This is what is called crazy-making. Thomas Jefferson called it tyranny over the mind of man.

An enlarged, colored pull-quote from the website states: "When one seeks therapy, the Church recommends approaches that respect 'client self-determination.'" (The way they have put 'client self-determination' in quotes is right! Gayness is a personal whim, a huge fad in today's world, that has no biological, scientific, or medical diagnosis.) In others words, when a proudly self-determined gay person (who probably has much worse problems that will now go unaddressed) is looking for some sort of validation or resolving of conflict between their religion and their popular homosexual proclivities, church leaders recommend they find a therapist who will respect their popular homosexual proclivities. This is not help! That is encouraging that person toward misery, high-risk behaviors, and yes, hell.


Please note that there is no mention of any kind about therapists helping a person heal and change and overcome homosexuality, even if that is what they seek!  "While shifts in sexuality can and do occur for some people, it is unethical to focus professional treatment on an assumption that a change in sexual orientation will or must occur." Even though they include this statement: "The individual has the right to define the desired outcome," it obviously refers only to gay-affirmation. How clever and cunning. Apparently, from this web page we are to believe that change from homosexuality is not something that will or must happen, and yet it has happened and God says it must happen! No unclean thing, especially a dirty mind or sullied soul, can dwell in God's presence. For the honest person who has become involved in the sleaze of homosexuality and is miserable, this is nothing short of cruel. And they go on, digging ever deeper holes: "For someone who experiences same-sex attraction, or identifies as gay, counseling may help the person approach his or her sexuality in healthier, more fulfilling ways." What health and fulfillment can come from homosexuality, especially when the church prohibits acting on it??? More crazy-making! What is really occurring here, whether leaders know it or not, is systematic activism toward the full acceptance of homosexual behaviors in the church.

SoL knows who is behind this web page. It's people we've written about before who wish to remake the church and the gospel of Jesus Christ to include homosex. They have set themselves up as a light, have the ear of some leaders and put endless pressure on them, and patiently push their agenda in every possible way. They are openly against reparative or change therapy, even though they are forced to admit "shifts in sexuality can and do occur." These people could sell refrigerators to Eskimos. They have got the church stating that people who wish to change and want counseling in that direction are not to be helped in that way because these pro-gay pseudo-therapists, some of which are homosexuals themselves, insist it should not happen. They are in essence preaching there is no law, no sin, and no repentance/Savior required. For Mormons who take scripture seriously, this should sound very familiar.

Please keep in mind that what is happening here goes far beyond any issue concerning mere temptations of the flesh.  Most people don't realize that the push for homosex is only a means to an end. We are confronted here with principalities and powers, the stuff of anti-Christs. Who knew this would be the road taken to that destination? But let's finish our analysis of mormonandgay.

These people use total psychobabble to further their agenda. First it is admitted that people can change from gay to straight, then they say that it is unethical to deliberately help them do that. It makes no sense, unless you're all about pushing homosex. In addition, the therapist, a free agent in his own right, trained in making people well, is supposed to take his marching orders from the sick/troubled person who has come to them to get better--that is, in the way the sick person wants to get "better." No right or wrong, no health or sickness, no getting to the roots of problems, just make the gay person feel good about their choice of  . . . well, pornography. The whole gay thing is pornographic and pornography is its mainstay. It's a case of lunatics running the asylum. 

And another thing. If Mormon gays are never supposed to act out their sexual fantasies in any way, why does everybody need to know about them? Isn't the management of one's personal sexuality a private part of life for everyone, single or married?  Aren't gays exactly the same as other members in this way? In other words, why do these particular people feel free to make their private sexual feelings public (as seen on mormonandgay and Savannah's case) , and what is everybody else supposed to do about it? The web page does not make this clear. We can only assume that we are being instructed to treat self-proclaimed gays as more special than anyone else and never to help them overcome their miserable oversexed minset--why? Because this fits in with what the world is doing? So aren't local leaders supposed to let members of any age and any sexual orientation/gender identity (there are 92 at last count), including Savannah, tell everybody all about their heart-felt felt-needs, felt-hopes, and current sexual feelings? Why not in church? It's not even as public as the internet. Oh, unless they record what happens there and put it online. 

It appears that this page exists, at least in part, to indoctrinate the general membership into especially recognizing homosexuals, accepting perverse sexual lust as immutable, ignoring sexual abuse and emotional and mental illness, and treating open homosexuals as healthy, harmless fellow congregants/leaders. So why couldn't Savannah finish her speech? Apparently, what happened was merely a glitch. The person in authority who spoke after Savannah sure didn't correct anything she said or say anything clearly against homosexuality. How confusing is that?

Whatever a church may say or print about its ultimate disapproval of this age-old sin that got two cities burned to the ground by the Lord is completely drowned out by the "respect" and "acceptance" we are being coerced to exercise regarding a person's self-proclaimed harmful and unnatural sexual attractions. Apparently, our human relations and interests, no matter how steeped in sin we humans are, are more important than truth, our relationship with the Godhead, and the welfare of our immortal souls. Apparently homosexuality, once considered a vice so ugly that polite society would not name it, is now touted by churches as an attractive characteristic.

Yes, on this web page we are privileged to meet the gay Mormons. Apparently gay is just another interesting and world-friendly kind of Mormon we can boast we include in our midst. And activists know that if self-identified homosexuals are shown as sympathetic characters on the church's website they'll soon be fully accepted by its congregations, no questions asked.


In light of this very fair assessment of mormonandgay.lds.org (that most Mormons don't know exists or don't think through--how's that for unity and clarity?), is it any wonder that young Savannah, encouraged by the world, her parents and entourage, even the Church, was emboldened to come out in a church meeting? According to mormonandgay.lds.org, she is perfectly respectable and allowed to share her "self-determined" and not-to-be-changed sexuality. So, again, why was she cut short and told to sit down? Don't these local leaders know the Church's attitude toward gays as per this web page? If not, why not? Aren't these local leaders in big trouble for being ungracious and unkind and unChristian toward a homosexual? The only reason we can think of why they finally told her to sit down is because she was actually saying she wanted to live the gay life-style someday, as in getting "married." And yet as we've pointed out, many fine upstanding church members openly advocate for gay marriage (i.e.homosexual sexual behaviors), in public and in church, so where is the problem?

Where is our gay-affirming Church's statement denouncing this horrific and highly publicized event? Perhaps it's not there because they don't know what to say except the convenient excuse that they leave these things up to local leaders. Again, how's that for unity and clarity? If ye are not one, ye are not mine, said Jesus. Orthodox members, if they are honest and paying any sort of attention, are confused and frustrated by what is happening. Contradictions, inconsistencies, uncertainties, and equivocations abound. Morale is low, to put it mildly. If we at SoL could have our way, when Savannah, even though a tender adolescent, first began preaching lesbianism from the pulpit, every single person in that chapel would have stood up and quietly walked out. But people aren't thinking. And the reaction of the people in charge was too little, too late. Damage done.

What would have been more in keeping with mormonandgay would have been what a former bishop of ours told us he would do if the same sort of thing happened in our ward: NOTHING (except maybe have a family night about it at home with his own kids!).

Once given an inch gay activists will take a mile. And they will never stop. There are no boundaries for homosexualists, Mormon homosexualists included, or at least no boundaries except the arbitrary ones they choose. By equivocating with gay activism, churches everywhere are painting themselves into a nightmarish policy vs. doctrine corner they cannot get out of. No one in this dead-end lifestyle is helped by society pretending there is nothing wrong with it.

To borrow from and add to Roger Scruton, "The triumph of sin [and illness and insanity and sexual impurity and child sexual abuse and Godlessness and evil being called good and good evil, and every other bad thing] comes with our failure to perceive [and unequivocally oppose] it.

Why does SoL go to all this trouble to point this out? Because things only get fixed when people realize they are broken. Nobody turns to Christ unless they realize they are sinners.